Seeing the future: 4 CPA leaders look ahead to 2025

Last week in San Diego, a group of 165 finance leaders convened for the fourth Future of Finance Summit. This JofA podcast episode is a compilation of takeaways from the event and a look at key areas of focus for leaders in 2025. It is the first of several Future of Finance recordings.

The speakers for this episode are:

• Tom Hood, CPA/CITP, CGMA, AICPA & CIMA’s executive vice president–Business Growth & Engagement
• Kimberly Ellison-Taylor, CPA/CITP, CGMA, the CEO of KET Solutions and former AICPA and Association of International Certified Professional Accountants chair
• Becca Shane, CPA, CGMA, the CFO of Blue Marlin Ventures
• Okorie Ramsey, CPA, CGMA, vice president–Sarbanes Oxley at Kaiser Permanente and former AICPA and Association of International Certified Professional Accountants chair

What you’ll learn from this episode:

• More about Tom Hood’s summation that the event “leveled up.”
• The top priorities of finance leaders, based on polling last week at the Future of Finance Summit.
• Why Kimberly Ellison-Taylor says she’s looking forward to “clarity” in 2025.
• Why the phrase “feed forward” and an emphasis on positivity resonated with CFO Becca Shane.
• Okorie Ramsey’s focus on the talent pipeline and relevance.
• His explanation of the profession’s need to “tell a better story.”

Play the episode below or read the edited transcript:

— To comment on this episode or to suggest an idea for another episode, contact Neil Amato at Neil.Amato@aicpa-cima.com.

Transcript

Neil Amato: Welcome to the Journal of Accountancy podcast. This is Neil Amato with the JofA, recording from the Future of Finance Summit in San Diego. It’s mid-December 2024. To kick off this Future of Finance wrapup episode is friend of the program Tom Hood. Tom is AICPA & CIMA’s executive vice president–Business Growth and Engagement, and he’s a former business and industry CFO himself. Tom, first, welcome back to the podcast. We’re glad to have you on.

Hood: Neil, it’s always an honor to be here. Appreciate it.

Amato: From the sessions on culture to the workshops led by various finance leaders at name-brand companies, what’s your summation of how this fourth in-person Future of Finance Summit has gone?

Hood: It feels like we’ve leveled up yet again. The feedback is it’s even better than the prior years. I think what’s making it so valuable and important is the power of the collaboration. You could just see from the minute everyone gathered the first day, the relationships and the bonding, from even new people to the existing, were phenomenal. What that’s doing is driving this air where I think they’re trying to accelerate the learning curve by collaboration.

Amato: From talking to people, whether it be informally or hearing them in sessions or hearing the questions, what themes to you are emerging for this audience of large corporates’, mainly, finance leaders?

Hood: The themes are not unsurprising, the themes that we built the agenda around. That was a good confirmation from everyone that this is the right stuff.

But the themes typically are clearly, culture, especially leading in a hybrid environment, that’s a big issue. The idea of mindset, I think as everyone’s getting into these transformation journeys, the mindset of their teams and their ability to be resilient through these long journeys is essential.

Then I think the power of sharing. I think what surprises people to this day is how open the group is of sharing all their stuff. Every time we have a workshop or a speaker, it’s always combined with a roundtable discussion so everyone’s able to say, what does it mean to us? Then they’re starting to talk about what are you doing? What am I doing? How can we learn from each other? That’s the power of a community. It really has gelled as a community, which is what we’ve hoped for all along. But we had about half new people this year, so that’s pretty exciting. Our attendance went up to about 165, and we’re looking at keeping on growing it, because … everyone wants to be part of it.

Amato: We have the voices of attendees also in this episode, some of them first-timers, some of them veterans, and I think they’re really liking the knowledge of the crowd that they can gain. What two or three trends are you focusing on, keeping a watch on for 2025 as it relates to the profession and business and industry?

Hood: As we’ve talked about, our theme was riding the waves of transformation. And the waves of transformation are like twofold. The waves are coming from external trends and issues that are making the finance teams respond, and many are trying to get ahead of those waves to be proactive. The trend issues have been what’s driven our agenda from day one.

Here’s the latest. On day one, we did another poll and surveyed the group. And the results are, interestingly enough, the need for new skills — emphasis on “new” — upskilling and reskilling, No. 1. Before, that was down around No. 3 or 4. That’s interesting to us. We did not expect that. AI and [generative] AI came up to No. 2. That’s another one that was surprising.

It used to be three behind accelerated digital transformation, which is now No. 3. It’s interesting watching that they’re basically the same trends, but the importance has shifted. I’m not sure exactly why, but you can see the community saying this is what we believe are our biggest issues.

I think this upskilling is becoming more and more intense. Maintaining culture and managing a hybrid environment, No. 4, and then comes innovation and growth strategies. They’re all trying to get to that position of being that value-added adviser to the company, and that’s why they want to have a seat at the executive table for the ideas of innovation, growth. Many of them driving gen AI in their organization.

One, new skills; two gen AI; three accelerated digital transformation; four, maintaining culture in a hybrid work environment; five, innovation and growth. Those are going to be the five we’re going to start the year with.

Amato: Great. Tom, anything else to add in closing? We really appreciate you joining the podcast.

Hood: I think the rest is going to come from the people you’re interviewing that are on-site here. It’s just an amazing group of people. I like to call them my tribe because they’ve just become a source of real information about what the future of finance is going to look like, and we really appreciate that.

Amato: Kimberly Ellison-Taylor is my guest. Kimberly and I have met at this event several times recording podcasts, and we’re back to kind of close out 2024, look ahead to 2025. Kimberly, first, thanks for being back on the JofA podcast.

Kimberly Ellison-Taylor: Thanks, Neil. Anytime.

Amato: Related to this event, the Future of Finance Summit, what are some of the things you’re hearing, comments or themes that stand out to you?

Ellison-Taylor: What’s really interesting for me, Neil, is that the Future of Finance Summit is an opportunity for finance leaders to come together to learn, collaborate, and envision a future. I think it’s interesting that we’re all grappling with similar challenges around people, around technology, and also around business processes.

It is amazing to be around leaders who’ve been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and they’re willing to share their lessons learned. Every time we have an opportunity to come together, there’s always something new to learn. And for this year’s session, we’re talking about culture, we’re talking about the remote workforce, we’re speaking about digital technologies, including gen AI. I don’t think there can be a conference in at least the foreseeable future that does not speak about digital technology and also what we think the future might include.

Amato: I was also at Digital CPA. When I was there, I recorded with Nina Chmura, who is a leadership academy graduate, now a partner at Withum. She was actually a guest editor of the Journal of Accountancy back in 2017. Now, think about this: In 2017, she and her panel of editors chose as their very important issue culture and retention. A, they were prophetic. B, it’s still really important because it’s clearly front and center here in late 2024, culture and retention. It’s not going away because it hadn’t been fixed or what? I don’t know.

Ellison-Taylor: It’s interesting you should say that because in 2016, I was the chair of the American Institute of CPAs, and we were talking a lot about technology. But with technology came the understanding even more so that we needed to skill, upskill, and reskill the talent that we have on deck or the talent that we’re trying to recruit. With the thought of technology comes also the fear that our team members may have that they could be replaced.

When you add a perfect storm of the pandemic environment, the perfect storm of uncertainty in the economic market, and also the fast pace of technology that’s coming on deck like gen AI, we have more and more concerns about how we retain our top talent. It doesn’t matter what you decide to do. If you don’t have really great people who are committed to the vision, and who are committed to lifelong learning, you are going to stagnate and not move as quickly.

I think although people sometimes seem to be the easiest thing for some people, it actually is the hardest thing because we’re demographically different. And as a Gen X, the Boomers told me to do it, and we did it, and we didn’t complain about it. I think that we’re in a demographic era where we need to be more culturally sensitive and have more emotional intelligence about how we motivate and inspire and influence our team members to jump on this journey of transformation with us.

Amato: Yeah, Carrie Murphy here had a good session on generational differences and those culture and retention issues. One aspect of talent, one kind of new strategy on talent, is apprenticeships. There are several initiatives in place with the AICPA; it’s a national thing. But for you, there’s also a local component to it. Tell me more about apprenticeships and the local to Kimberly Ellison-Taylor aspect of that.

Ellison-Taylor: One hundred percent. It is so dynamic and interesting of a topic, and it really hits home with me because when you commit to lifelong learning, I think that means you commit to learning in all forms, and I think we can’t have judgment about why or how people pursue their careers. For me, apprenticeship is just a continuation of how we motivate and inspire people and get them to be under the tent of the accounting profession.

The apprenticeship idea and concept in Maryland is accelerating at a very fast clip. Tom Hood is a visionary leader. He’s gotten connections with the governor’s office. The governor is on board in Maryland. We’ve gotten excitement from several high schools. We have more excitement and people willing to engage than we actually had the room for.

At the most recent event, at the Community College of Baltimore County, we had several high schools. The students were standing and really thinking about how we can get engaged and get involved. What I love about the apprenticeship model, it’s an “and” strategy. It could be the whole strategy for some people depending on what they want to do, but it’s definitely an “and” strategy where there’s a win for potentially a high school student, or a college student, or someone else who is looking forward to a career in accounting in a different way, and it’s a win strategy for the employers, who are desperately seeking high-performing, high-quality talent.

And at the same time, it’s a win for the profession because if they enter in our profession and start working at any of these capacities, that means that’s not [an] avenue that will be turned away if they decide that they want to continue, or if we can convince them that this was such an opportunity that they want to continue. I’ve spoken to several high school students directly who are calling, they’re interested, they want to know more. We just need the employers to really be interested and excited that this can work. Don’t wait until you see 15 people do it already. Let’s get involved, and let’s get the employers signed up.

Amato: Yeah. Some of those employers have been highlighted on this podcast before. A year ago, we had Darryl Bonner from Liberty Bank, who’s one of the apprentices in their program, and it’s going to continue. Thank you for filling me in on that.

I’ll close with this: What are you looking forward to about 2025 as it relates to the profession?

Ellison-Taylor: In 2025, I believe we’re going to see more accelerated change, more new and emerging technologies entering the profession’s viewpoint. There will be lots more people who are determining what aspect of the profession they want to stay in. Hopefully, we will have lots of people who are excited about public accounting. But I know, as a member of business and industry, that we will have that many more leaders thinking about how they can add value from an industry perspective.

We have colleagues who are supporting the government, and we’re really excited that our colleagues are servants. They are servant leaders, as are any of the other segments of the profession. But we know they’re on the ground, they’re thinking about how they can add more value.

We also have colleagues who are in the education environment, and they are reimagining how they operate because they want to make sure that we are getting students excited about the profession. They’re ensuring that their coursework is relevant and timely and appropriate for what the employers might need. We also have leaders who are in nonprofit organizations. They have a purpose-driven service mission, and they need to reimagine how they deliver those services, so they can get more efficient and increase their effectiveness. We also have our colleagues who are consultants, and so they’re working with organizations on people, process, and technology concerns.

We are everywhere, and what we have to collectively do is make sure that we stay on top of the technologies and that we understand the people concerns. Even if we are Boomers or Gen X or late or early Millennials, we have to make sure we understand what the Generation Z is also concerned about and the Alpha generation behind them. We just can’t forget that people are a critical element, and although people are concerned about technology taking their jobs, I believe we’re still going to need people. I just think they’re going to need to do different things.

I’m looking forward to clarity. I’m looking forward to greater communication, greater envisionment of what we’re going to do to help protect and promote the public interest. I’m looking for more understanding of how we can leverage technology to help us do our jobs more effectively, more efficiently, regardless of what segment we’re in, and I’m looking forward to us doing that in a way that attracts and retains amazing talent in the profession.

Amato: Now joining me on the show is Becca Shane, a CPA who holds the CGMA designation. I’m going to introduce Becca by saying she’s a CFO, she’s attending the Future of Finance Summit in San Diego. But five years ago now, I was aware that you, Becca, had a session at ENGAGE about mental wellness in the workplace. I failed to close that loop, that silly little thing of actually scheduling time to talk to you. We kind of passed each other on the escalator, but it didn’t end up happening. I’m glad you can join me on the show today. Thanks for being here.

Becca Shane: Absolutely. Looking forward to it. I know, we passed on the escalator, and it was pretty funny, you going down and me coming up.

Amato: Yeah, and so that was five years ago at ENGAGE in Las Vegas, 2019. Plenty of things are different in the world of finance and the world at large. But this is the Future of Finance Summit, December 2024, San Diego. Is this your first summit?

Shane: It is my first summit. I had meant to come earlier, but post-COVID, getting to conferences has been a little bit more difficult than it used to be.

Amato: Sure. What are some of the messages that are sticking with you that maybe you think you can take back to apply to your role as CFO of Blue Marlin Partners?

Shane: I think one of the biggest things that came out of yesterday’s sessions was positivity. Bringing the positivity back to my office and back to my team, I think, is really important. I think also being flexible and adaptable and not just saying this is how others do it, being really unique and trying to make sure that you look at what fits your organization, not what fits everyone else’s.

Amato: You mentioned your team. How big is the finance team at Blue Marlin?

Shane: I hired someone last year, or earlier this year, I should say. It’s a team of two now. We’re tiny. We’re really small, but I think we’ll grow soon. I’ve been there about three years. I hired an operations generalist because my title is CFO, but I wear many other hats.

Amato: Right, yeah, I think you said at lunch, several hats. What do you think are some of your top challenges as a finance leader heading into 2025 and maybe, playing on that notion of positivity and flexibility, things you’ve heard, how are you going to address them?

Shane: I think really it’s going to be me concentrating on what matters most and focusing really hard on what needs to be done and how it can be done. I think some of the biggest challenges are the state of the economy, what’s going to happen with the government. We’re based in D.C., and that doesn’t necessarily always affect our business, but when it comes to tax policy, that’s going to affect our portfolio companies. I think really that’s going to be my focus is just being flexible, focusing on what matters.

Amato: One of the things you mentioned to me was the session by Chris Dyer. He said “feed forward.” What does feed forward mean, and how is it different, and how do you think you can apply it?

Shane: I think feed forward is better than feedback. You’re really trying to give someone a lesson that they can learn from and grow from, rather than just, not criticism, but that critique. I think for me, feed forward is the way I can help my team grow. It’s the way I can help them develop and make them feel like what I’m telling them isn’t just, “Oh, you did this wrong. You made a mistake.’ It’s, “Hey, here’s how we can do this better going forward.”

Amato: At any conference you go to these days, there’s going to be a session on gen AI. Are you using it any in your operations?

Shane: I use it to write policies. I use it to review emails. Mostly that for now, because our information has so much PII, so it has a lot of personal identifiable information, and even information that’s our company that could be proprietary. We have to be really careful about what we put into language models. We have a responsible-use-of-technology policy where we have to anonymize everything.

Amato: Yeah, so this is just an express version of a conversation as a wrapup to the Future of Finance Summit at the end of 2024, but anything else looking ahead to the new year that’s on your mind as we close this episode?

Shane: I think really it’s just taking back what you learn at all these conferences. I think taking back the little tidbits that I can gather from each session, going back through my notes, reviewing everything that I’ve learned and taking the little tips and tricks back to my team is really what’s going to help us get through 2025 and all the uncertainty.

Amato: Becca Shane, thank you very much. I’m glad we could eventually, finally connect.

Shane: Thank you. Me, too.

Amato: I’m recording today with Okorie Ramsey, former AICPA chair and overall Association chair, Okorie, first, we’re glad to have you on the JofA podcast, so, welcome.

Okorie Ramsey: Thank you, Neil. It’s a pleasure to be here with you today.

Amato: Going back to when you were named AICPA chair and to a phrase that I understand has special meaning to you, “To live a life that matters.” Tell me more about that and why that resonates with you.

Ramsey: Absolutely. That actually came from an MBA course that I was teaching at San Francisco State University, which is my alma mater. So being able to go back to San Francisco State where I learned so much, it was wonderful to be able to, in that way, give back and go back to campus. But one of the things I was doing during this particular session was I had a leadership lesson.

During that conversation, we were talking about, what’s your legacy? And what your legacy would be in six words. It had to be really concise. It takes a lot. If you had paragraphs upon paragraphs, you could come up with something that would be, I’m sure, absolutely wonderful. But when you have to be very specific about what that means in very few words, you have to be very thoughtful about it.

For me, living a life that matters, what it means to me is that I want to be able to look back when I look back at all the things I’ve done in my career and in my personal life, that it truly did matter that I was here and that I made an impact. Being able to do a lot of things that I feel like I’ve done so far — because I’m not done yet — but to be able to continue to ultimately impact the lives of others in a very positive way is something that’s really important to me.

Amato: Yeah, you have traveled around a lot. Obviously, the AICPA chair role is for one year, but that’s extended beyond that one year of service. These days, that’s one of the many ways you’re giving back, by talking to student groups and others. Why is it so important to you?

Ramsey: Because I think about the pipeline of the profession. And ultimately to your point, in this past year, I’ve been in 20 states, at least 20 states, and over four countries. Being across the world, speaking on the profession, what we are seeking to do, how we want to lead from the front, and to make an impact on economies, on businesses, and just the overall business environment — you need to be able to tell that story.

One of the things we talk about in terms of the pipeline is that we need to tell a better story about our profession, so that people understand all the things that we impact and the value that we bring. Being able to go to the high schools, to the colleges, and to speak on the many different roles that we play. Whether you are an intenal auditor, you’re an external auditor, you are in advisory services. You’re in forensics, you do taxes.

There’s so many different things that you can do that we need to make sure that we’re evidencing that so people know, here are the opportunities available to you, so hopefully that gives people more options of what they could do within our profession.

Amato: The Journal of Accountancy’s Bryan Strickland, in fact, wrote an article about that catching up with you. He wrote this February 2024 [with the] headline: “Growing the Profession: Insights From the AICPA Chair’s Travelogue.” That’s exactly it, 20 states, four countries. Obviously, you’re all around. You’re also pretty good at taking a selfie with those groups of students.

Ramsey: Yes, I’ve learned from the best. My good friend, Kimberly Ellison-Taylor, who is actually Chairman 104, and Tom Hood, who’s actually leading the Future of Finance Summit here. Both of them are exceptional leaders, and it is part of how we tell our story, through those pictures of different places that we are, the types of events and activities that we’re in, and then hopefully that we do have a lot of fun in addition to doing hard work that makes an impact.

Amato: At this event, again, this is the Future of Finance Summit. What are some of the comments and themes that are emerging as you listen to this group and you talk to this group as we close out 2024?

Ramsey: As we close out the year, and this is a great forum, because we are meeting with CFOs, finance leaders from many different organizations, both domestically and internationally, that the things that are top of mind for them in how they run their organizations and how they drive their visions forward, we’re talking about pipeline and talent and how we make sure that we have the right skill sets within organizations to really drive the value that we need to for business and operations.

Digital transformation and AI, and the impact that those things will have on our organizations as well, both the business cases that we need to create, but also maybe sometimes where we haven’t gotten the greatest bang for our buck based on AI, but what is possible and how we continue to drive that forward.

But a lot of the things that resonated most with me have been the conversations about people, because really we are a people business. If we are not really developing strong talent and helping them to see the value and the work, but also retaining them, whether they are in firms or they are in corporate roles or they’re in public accounting, we will not be able to really reach our vision, our goals that we want to achieve. We have to put that effort in.

One of the things we talk about is really the fact that we have four and five different generations within the profession. How do we make sure that we can cater to all of these different interests at the same time, recognizing that they are also individuals. We can say these generalizations about what the different generations have an interest in, but everyone’s a person, and they have their own challenges, visions, and goals, and we need to be able to speak to that specifically, but also help them to see that there’s a place for everyone within our profession.

Amato: Yeah, it’s important to understand those people and not just assume, “Oh, because this person is in this certain age bracket, that’s what they’re going to want.”

Ramsey: Right.

Amato: Actually have to get to know them.

Ramsey: Absolutely.

Amato: As a closing thought, what is your hope for the profession for 2025?

Ramsey: My hope, and I really do believe that this will remain true, but I look at it even beyond 2025, is that we must remain relevant. When we think about all the different things that are going to be coming at us in 2025, what’s going on globally, geopolitically, what’s going on in the United States, that we have to remain relevant. We have to remain unbiased. We have to really remain focused on how do we help economies and businesses grow within their different spaces.

We are the best to be able to do that, and we just need to continue to make sure that we look at this collectively, both at the state level with state CPA societies, but also at the national level and internationally as well. I believe the AICPA & CIMA are really at the forefront to be able to do that and make that positive impact.

Amato: Okorie, thank you for being on. We’re glad to have you on the show, and we look forward to future conversations down the road.

Ramsey: Absolutely, Neil, thank you for having me and happy holidays and wishing you the best.

Amato: Again, that was Okorie Ramsey, one of four guests from the Future of Finance Summit last week. Thanks to him, along with Becca Shane, Kimberly Ellison-Taylor, and Tom Hood.

We’ll have more Future of Finance Summit and Digital CPA episodes in the new year, but first comes a holiday recharge. This will be a short hiatus, with our next episode scheduled for Jan. 9.

Thank you, listeners, for all your support and engagement with 2024 episodes. We will talk again in the new year.