Longtime CPA leader: ‘An amazing time to be in the profession’

Calvin Harris, CPA, knew he wanted to be an accountant well before he got to college. He had several mentors who helped him make that decision. It’s one reason he believes that accountants need to reach students early and tell a better story about the profession.

Harris was first on the JofA podcast in February 2022, when he was CFO of the National Urban League. Today, he’s CEO of the New York State Society of CPAs and keenly aware of some of the profession’s issues related to available talent.

He discussed some of the ways accountants can help attract candidates to the profession and commented on the draft recommendations in the recently published report by the National Pipeline Advisory Group.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

• How technology has energized Harris and how it’s empowering young CPAs.
• How Harris’s mother, a former high school teacher, influenced his career choice.
• The crucial role diversity and inclusion can play in the future of the profession, according to Harris.
• Why telling a better story — and telling it early and often — is a must to address accounting pipeline concerns.
• How Harris, later in life, added the New York City Marathon to his list of accomplishments.

Play the episode below or read the edited transcript:

— To comment on this episode or to suggest an idea for another episode, contact Neil Amato at Neil.Amato@aicpa-cima.com.

Transcript

Neil Amato: Welcome back to the Journal of Accountancy podcast. This is Neil Amato with the JofA. I’m pleased to welcome back a repeat guest on the show. His name is Calvin Harris. He was last with us on the podcast in early 2022. He’s changed jobs since then. He is now CEO of the New York State Society of CPAs.

Calvin Harris, thank you for being back on the JofA podcast.

Calvin Harris: I’m really glad to be here again, Neil.

Amato: Great to have you back, as I said. You said recently you think this is one of the most amazing times to be an accountant. Tell me why you feel that way, and what are some of the opportunities you see?

Harris: Neil, I’m not even sure how many times I’ve said that because I feel it so strongly, especially because of my own career. I’m licensed as a CPA here in New York as well as where I used to live in Maryland.

When I think back to the start of my career at Arthur Andersen, back when there was a Big Five, so many of the things I did at the start of my career, you just wouldn’t have a young person do. I loved my experience, but if you think back then, a few of us were joking about it recently that as a new hire, you would sometimes read, literally read out loud to each other, the financial statements as part of a proofreading exercise. Now while that actually helped you really get to know the financial statements extremely well, you wouldn’t do that anymore. Of course, we have software and technology to do that.

I can think about in other cases how you might do certain work on paper with a calculator, and certainly there’s nothing wrong with that. I certainly know people who still do that. But you would rely upon the technology on your desk or, heck, sometimes even in your hand or pocket, to work through.

Especially at the start of your career you get to start with the exciting stuff. You get to start with being creative, and, yes, accountants can be creative. You get to start with the strategy, you get to start with the engagement. So many of the things that are still needed, obviously technology allows us to do them. I really feel sometimes envious of people entering the profession because I know how much the profession has moved forward even in my part of my career. I think it just makes the way a person would start their career now just a lot more exciting and even more entertaining to be in.

Amato: I guess we’re going to go back a little bit in your history, to go back also to one of the things we talked about in 2022. We discussed some college professors being role models, also a drugstore pharmacist giving you a nudge. But I want to ask about a different role model today. I’d like to ask about your mom. I guess she taught a subject in high school that directed you to where you are today. Tell us more about that?

Harris: You’re right. In a way, she had two subjects that directed me. One was typing. Believe it or not, she was a typing teacher, so I knew how to type before I was 10. Not sure how helpful that is now, but it was extremely helpful back then. But the real one I would say was business math, which essentially was what they called bookkeeping at her school.

I was one of those kids, for better or worse, that would push his mother to bring home textbooks. I found that reading a business math textbook was fun. There’s no accounting for taste perhaps, but I was so excited about it that once I took bookkeeping in high school I was solid.

You mentioned that the pharmacist and my amazing professors in college at Morehouse. But from early on at home, the activities that my mother did as a high school teacher really made a huge impact. Frankly, I think that’s part of why, just an anecdotal example, but I still think it’s right on point of why it’s so important for us to have that early exposure to accounting.

Amato: Do you think there was a moment that you were reading one of those textbooks and you said, “I want to do this. I want to become a CPA”?

Harris: Maybe not a CPA, at least not that young, but I do think it had an impact because I did fall into that stereotype of being good at math, and I did enjoy math. But the application of math for business, I thought, was the part that really sucked me in.

You imagine you’re a kid and you see a book that has dollar signs in it. Well, this is still math, but there are dollar signs involved — well, now you have my attention. I’m sure that when I think hard on it, that either my precociousness, let’s call it that, wanting to read a textbook, really drove me down this road.

Amato: We’ll get back to some of those students connections in a little bit. First, I want to ask about your part — I guess you’re a member of the AICPA & CIMA National Commission on Diversity and Inclusion. Tell me some about that and why that role is important to you.

Harris: Thanks for asking about that. The commission is really important to me because I know of the things that the commission has done for people like me. I am a proud Black CPA. There are unfortunately aren’t that many of us by percentage. In my mind, being part of NCDI is part of how I help to give back.

Because the reality is, I’ve written about this many times — including very recently at the time we’re recording — on how important I think diversity, equity, and inclusion is and why I think that it is critical to the profession to lean heavily into it and not be, in some cases, “timid” is the only word I can think of in terms of supporting it.

Because, unfortunately, all too many times people seem to think that when we’re having conversations on equity and inclusion, we’re talking about an “or” situation or an “instead of.” We’re talking about “in addition to.”

We have huge pipeline issues. We have significant access concerns, and we, frankly, need to have our profession — from an equity and business perspective, it needs to match up to the people that we’re serving. Why would you not want to be a supporter of equity and inclusion? Actually, it’s good for the profession and good for everyone’s bottom line.

To be part of NCDI for me is a pleasure and an honor to do so. I am one of, or I would consider myself or I’m named as the person that’s supporting the various states’ societies as CEO. I’m really honored to serve in that role. But for me it’s a natural part of just giving back to the profession that has given so much to me.

Amato: Speaking of the talent pipeline in the profession, the National Pipeline Advisory Group, or NPAG, released a draft of six broad strategic areas to address those talent concerns. That was back in May. Some of those solutions cross over into the NCDI work, as one of the NPAG themes is expanding access for underrepresented groups. What do you think about that topic in general and the other recommendations?

Harris: Well, certainly pipeline is a conversation in and of itself that requires a lot of attention. I personally am very excited and supportive of what NPAG has done. I think it’s critical to keep having these conversations. Of course, it’s even more critical that we act on some of these things. I’ve read the report, and I think it naturally focuses, among many other things obviously, but it absolutely calls out the importance for inclusion in the profession as part of growing the pipeline. I would have been shocked if it wasn’t there because, to me, it’s such an obvious thing that’s needed to be included, but I’m glad to see that there as one of the many things that need to happen to move the profession along.

I would say just as a personal aside, because of the roles with the NCDI and as one of the 54 state society CEOs and also through other AICPA meetings, I’ve had an opportunity to hear feedback from the board many times, and I want to certainly thank the commission for their work. It’s a yeoman’s job to have taken all that information. I’m really excited about the next steps, particularly for us to actually act on some of those things that are put out there. I think it’s natural to include diversity, equity, and inclusion as well, because we can’t fix the pipeline challenge without also thinking about it from an equitable and inclusionary sort of way.

Amato: That NPAG report and our JofA coverage of it will be linked in the show notes for this episode. Speaking about connections to students, when should those connections begin? Because it seems like the “let’s go visit a college” — and you’ve touched on it already — it’s in many ways too late.

Harris: Yeah, I think certainly college is not early enough. We use my story. It’s just one story obviously, but by the time I was in college, I knew that I wanted to be an accountant. I knew that a CPA was what was going to be a good [fit] for me, but my exposure was much earlier. It was at home. It was elementary school, middle school. But that’s just me because I had a mother who was a high school bookkeeping teacher, business math teacher. You’re going to presume that not everyone has that at home. In fact, few would have that at home.

Which is why I’m really talking about just our own stories, which is on us, to make sure that we’re telling good stories as accountants and CPAs and that we’re making sure that our story gets out there. Whenever I chat with friends who are CPAs, and I do have friends other than those who were CPAs, just a lot more CPA friends. But, invariably, we end up talking about pipeline, and then at some point someone will talk about how we aren’t good at telling our own stories and how you won’t have any TV shows or movies with an accountant in them, more often than not. Although I recently saw, actually last night, I saw The Accountant with Ben Affleck, and he actually did some some interesting forensic accounting.

I’m still not sure that’s who you want to be putting out there as our accountant. No offense to Ben Affleck. Great movie. But that I can name that one, and it’s The Accountant. But how many movies can we talk about or TV shows with doctors and lawyers? All important roles.

But when it comes to the accountants, we have to make sure we get our own story out there. But absent that, that means that the profession also needs to be intentional and going way back earlier, at the very least, in high schools, ideally even sooner than that, because not every high school has a bookkeeping program or has a business program.

We may have to go back further than we normally would. The good news is that so many schools want that, and there also many great organizations that do that work where we within the profession can partner. But we’ve got to go way earlier than high school. I’d say at least middle school to really have the impact we want. But that’s playing the long game, but that’s how we get there. That’s how we get to success.

Amato: Now, speaking of middle schoolers and high schoolers of today, you talked about maybe how even your early accounting days, just things were done differently. I think that so many middle school and high school kids now today, they’ve learned how to create a PowerPoint slide deck. Obviously, they’re digital natives. They’ve grown up with the phones that we did not.

But having that skill, especially when I’m talking about PowerPoint and just general presentation, that’s different than knowing what info to put in the presentation. How do you advise young accountants who have some information from a spreadsheet to just go beyond the numbers?

Harris: That’s such a good point because I tend to believe, and even us CPAs are guilty of this, is that we lean so heavily into the number itself, that we forget that the number only matters because of the context behind it. It only matters because of the story. Ideally, even when you’re presenting financial information, you don’t necessarily start with the numbers. You don’t start with the statement. Heck, even if we think about audited financial statements, full of numbers, but the first few pages are not. It’s a report talking about what’s in there.

I think that’s a critical piece on helping young people think more strategically, think more critically. I think part of the way helping people understand to do that, and it might seem counterintuitive, is that even when we present the information, we don’t necessarily start with the number itself. We start with what we want them to present. You’ll be able to show them examples of how to get there.

It’s a tough thing to learn, admittedly, but it is one of the more critical things to do. If we go back to what we had talked about a little earlier in terms of the role of technology, I will say, one, even though it’s challenging to get that to them, the benefit is that technology gives them the ability to focus on that versus just whether a series of numbers will add up and multiply correctly. It’s tough, but I think leaning into the story behind the numbers is how we help them understand better.

Amato: That goes back to one of the NPAG themes, is telling a better story. It works in many levels.

Harris: Absolutely.

Amato: How do you, as a leader, resist the urge to hire people or even to simply associate with people who think just like you? And what advice would you maybe give others in leadership to learn how to check those biases and expand your reach, your network?

Harris: Neil, this is a tough one, I think for anyone, because in so many cases like attracts like. I think it’s almost natural for a person to seek out others who are similar to them because it’s more comforting. It’s more comfortable. Sometimes that desire doesn’t help us out because technology — and social media is a perfect example. I think social media as a whole is fantastic. But so many of us are well aware that the more things we like, the more our news feed gets filtered out. Well, that’s comforting, but it doesn’t necessarily make us better or more educated or more open. I think the same thing would apply here.

I think one of the first things you have to do as a leader or a person that has the ability to hire or make personnel decisions or group decisions is you need to be intentional about it. You need to intentionally think, where are we lacking? What are our blind spots? What are my blind spots? I know when I do that, I tend to make decisions that may not be what immediately came through, but it will be the thing that will ultimately be most beneficial for all of us.

For leaders that struggle with that, I think one of the first things to do is first give yourself a little bit of grace. You don’t have to call yourself close-minded because I think it’s just a natural human reaction. But even after we give ourselves grace, hold ourselves accountable and make sure that we are intentionally thinking beyond what’s familiar, intentionally thinking beyond what’s comfortable, and intentionally looking to try to fill our own blind spots.

Amato: Now, I’m going to give you a chance for a closing thought in just a sec, but first I’m actually going to lean into someone who I think has a similar interest to me with this question: You’ve run the New York Marathon?

Harris: I have.

Amato: Tell me about it!

Harris: Well, I’ll say this. I’ve run it twice. I’m planning on running it again this year. I’m about to post about that soon. I will admit, running began for me as a way to maintain some normalcy and peace of mind during the pandemic because I was able to work from home and closed off — which is its own privilege and I’m glad that I had it — but getting out to run was my way of connecting with the world. The next thing I knew, from just running around the neighborhood, it turned into a 5K then a 10K. Then I did a bunch of half marathons, and even where I’m sitting now, there were a bunch of medals on the wall.

I call myself a deliberate runner. I don’t call myself a slow runner. I’m very deliberate in my running. But I truly enjoy getting out and being a part of nature. I will say from the marathon perspective, it is extraordinarily tough and at a certain point quite painful, but it is one of the most amazing feelings you can have to celebrate that. I’ll admit for me, as someone who I’m not from New York, but I’m here now almost six years. That for me at this point running the marathon is part of how I celebrate being here in the great state of New York. In fact, I ran earlier today. Any time I get the chance, I like to get a few miles in.

Amato: There you go. Come November, we’ll be looking for you to again be completing the New York Marathon. Awesome.

Harris: Yes.

Amato: Calvin, any closing thoughts from today? I really appreciate you being on the podcast.

Harris: Thank you for having me. I would say in closing, I truly think this is an amazing time to be in the profession just as we began with. But part of what makes this profession so great are the opportunities that are there and the things that we can do moving it forward. Whether we’re looking at it from a DEI perspective, which certainly I think is critical, a pipeline perspective I think is critical, leaning into technology. There’s just so many things to be excited about.

If anything, I would encourage anyone in the profession or thinking about the profession, it’s time for all of us to be real ambassadors for the profession because we need for it to continue to flourish and grow. But at the same time, I think it’s given us all so much. I think it’s a great time for people to be even better ambassadors. I’m hoping that I can continue to be one as well. And, appreciate everything you do, Neil.

Amato: Thank you, Calvin. Appreciate you being on the show.

Harris: Absolutely.