AICPA chair: Why change is good, and needed, for the profession

Carla McCall, CPA, CGMA, managing partner of the firm AAFCPAs, began her one-year term as AICPA chair in May. In this JofA podcast episode, she said that “whirlwind” was a good description of the first few months in the role, “but in a good way.”

“If you truly love what you do, somehow it doesn’t seem so arduous and it goes by real quick,” McCall said, labeling interactions with numerous people in the profession as “rewarding.”

In this episode, McCall reflects on what she’s learned about herself, why her firm has benefited from her “front-row seat,” and her message to accountants about doing their part to grow the talent pipeline.

Resources

• McCall’s June 2023 appearance on the show
• More about McCall’s points of emphasis as AICPA chair and AICPA & CIMA co-chair

What you’ll learn from this episode:

• Why McCall emphasizes collaboration.
• What she means by the statement, “We can’t just talk about the work we do if the way we’re working isn’t smart.”
• How “elevating brain power” is key to propping up the talent pipeline.
• The ways that embracing differences can make all the difference in the workplace.
• The value of speaking up when the rest of the room is quiet.
• The importance of scheduling far in advance and then being able to say “no.”
• The sticky-note message that serves as a reminder to McCall in decision-making.
• Questions that McCall believes everyone in the profession should be asking themselves.

Play the episode below or read the edited transcript:

— To comment on this episode or to suggest an idea for another episode, contact Neil Amato at Neil.Amato@aicpa-cima.com.

Transcript

Amato: Hello, listeners. This is the Journal of Accountancy podcast. I’m Neil Amato with the JofA, and I’m excited about the conversation today with AICPA chair Carla McCall. You’ll hear that right after this brief word from our sponsor.

I said it in the opening and if you couldn’t tell, I’ll say it again. I’m thrilled to have Carla McCall back on the JofA podcast. She’s a major firm leader, AICPA chair, and also co-chair of the Association of International Certified Professional Accountants. We’re going to discuss several of the topics and trends that matter to the profession as a whole and to Carla in particular. Carla, thanks for being a repeat guest on the JofA podcast. We’re glad to have you back.

McCall: Thank you, Neil. My pleasure. Always nice to talk to you.

Amato: Yeah, great. The feeling is mutual. Traditionally though not officially, Labor Day signals the end of summer. We’re recording the day after Labor Day, and so by the calendar, summer goes a couple more weeks, but it’s that traditional end-of-summer time, so I’ll get your summer reflections. Would “whirlwind” be accurate in your first few months as AICPA chair?

McCall: Yeah, that’s a good term. I would say whirlwind, but in a fun way, if you truly love what you do, somehow it doesn’t seem so arduous and it goes by real quick. I’ve had a busy summer for sure as far as visiting state societies and students and I’ve done managing partner roundtables, and the connections with other professionals has been really rewarding.

Amato: With the travel and all the groups you’ve been interacting with, I think you just got back from Puerto Rico, for example.

McCall: Yes.

Amato: What are you hearing? Both the positive trends and the areas of concern that are top of mind for the profession.

McCall: Thanks for the question. When I’m traveling around, obviously it’s different with different groups. Obviously the students have lots more different types of questions. But when I’m meeting with managing partners and other leaders in business and industry, I’d say one positive is what I’m seeing is a start of an evolution to change culture of our companies and adoption of new technology, which I think is really, really important because we are in a significant period of change. To hear that even firms that are really focusing on a tech strategy, doing some R&D, how can we figure out ways that we could work smarter not harder, and knowing that culture matters with the expectations of human capital is really positive.

As you may know, as I’m traveling around, one of the things I’ve talked about a lot is collaboration and how we share with one another. The profession does well when we all do well and so we need to share the good, the bad, and the ugly of things that we’re trying so other people can learn from it and not have to recreate the wheel.

On the areas of concern side, it’s all about human capital, really, not just pipeline, but also retention and just navigating the new worlds of work we’re in, because it’s one size fits one today. We’re all trying to figure out how do we manage our human capital inside our firms in a way that meets the expectations of everybody from people who’ve just started to people who are more seasoned and been in the industry for a long time who have had to pivot the way we work since 2020.

Amato: Can you tell me a little more about that phrase you used, “one size fits one”?

McCall: Yes, so the one thing that I’ve learned very well, given that we’ve rolled this out five years ago. We rolled out TypeCoach, which is a type of Myers Briggs in our firm, but it’s very user-friendly. In any case we all now change the way we communicate. Each person comes from a different point of view based on their natural preferences. That also means we have introverts and extroverts. Not everybody is built the same way. We have people who are visual learners. Some people work independently, some people work better in a team. Understanding that everybody has differences when we’re managing teams, that means that we have to figure out how we’re going to manage our engagements when we have different needs by different people on the team.

Prior to 2020, we all did the same thing. We all drove to a client no matter how long that took, and we sat in a conference room even though we could have worked from anywhere to a point now where people are craving more independence and flexibility. But we have to make sure that we’re navigating those differences because we can’t assume that everybody is going to learn in the same way, that people are going to be engaged if they’re sitting at home when they want to be around people. So, how do we manage that in today’s world?

Amato: Now going back to your earlier answer, you mentioned human capital. You mentioned the word pipeline. Let’s talk about it some, what is your message for attracting but also retaining the talent into and keeping them in the profession?

McCall: On the attraction, NPAG’s done a lot of work over the last year on how to fill that pipeline. In my messaging, yes, I think it’s important that we fill that pipeline. What’s important to me is telling a better story and I talk about how we could do a better job as individuals in this profession of promoting the work that we do, how we help clients solve complex problems, how we use this cool technology or some of the specialty work that we do that’s interesting and put it out.

We published case studies. We published highlight reels of our team members who have moved to find their meaningful work within the firm and so a little bit about their career path, or why they love what they do at their specific industry. We’ve tried to get those stories out there, and we’ve also worked really hard inside our firm to have a culture of leading with context versus control and offering that flexibility.

I think that people coming into our profession want some flexibility, but they also want to know how they’re going to progress and what’s their path and what’s their earnings potential. We’re trying to build transparency around all of that. But once we get them in the pipeline, we have to keep them. We can’t just talk about the work we do if the way we’re working isn’t smart and so if I had to flip my platform order, I would put value and sustainability and then transformation sort of side-by-side, because we have to change the way we work. We have to work with smart technology. We have to figure out ways how to automate, eliminate, or offshore the routine tasks that happen in our profession.

We’re elevating brainpower from the first day they walk in the door. If we can do that, then people will be more engaged and connected to our workplace cultures. Then we can talk about all that cool work, but if we talk about the work that we do without having a good workplace culture, I’m not sure we’re going to be very successful.

Amato: You used that word “cool.” I saw it referenced in a Bill Sheridan podcast interview you did. What I’ll say is, I hate that we have not had the chance to meet in person, but I get the sense from our two remote conversations that you really have an eagerness to not only carry out the traditional professional duties of that AICPA chair role, but also to do it in a way that is uniquely you, uniquely Carla McCall. What would you say about that?

McCall: Well, it’s funny you say “cool.” I’m trying to find another word because my kids tell me cool isn’t cool, so nobody uses the word “cool” anymore.

McCall: I don’t know, if you think of a better word, let me know.

Amato: I tried that with my kids. I’m going to interrupt and say, I was told to come up with new words for cool, and it truly was somehow a work-related assignment. I said to the kids, what about “epic”? They’re like, that’s so old.

McCall: I was like, this profession is fire, man, it’s fire. I don’t know. We’ll see. Listen, anyone who knows me knows I have my own style. I believe in authenticity, I believe in authentic leadership. I think that some people in our profession have an outdated view of what we should do, how we should dress, how we should act. I think sometimes we as individuals feel like we have to fit other people’s expectations and narratives of us and do things the way our predecessors did it, I fell into that trap.

If we’ve learned anything from the transformation that we’re in today, it’s the old way is gone. There’s new ways to work and lead and develop people that are more modern. If people find themselves trying to tell other people how to do things, how to lead, how to say, or are trying to match it to their own style, you probably need to check yourself and stop, because you’re trying to make them fit your narrative and not letting them be authentic to themselves. That’s a big roadblock for people. I’ve always done things a bit different and I have been successful in leading and growing a firm that doesn’t exactly fit the mold of the old traditional firm.

Amato: That’s obviously a good way strategically to reach out to a new generation, but also it helps keep things, I think, fun for you. But it is a serious issue to address concern about the accounting pipeline. But, for instance, do you even apply that to, say, putting your own stamp on an event such as AICPA Council?

McCall: Yes. Well, if you saw Council meeting, I did it a little bit differently than other people have done it. I do not like podiums. I think they’re rigid and a little old fashioned and they’re built for people who are over 6 feet tall. I prefer, as the AICPA could tell you, that I like to write my own content because it’s really important that anything I put out there as in my voice. I even worked with my own marketing team on that. I decided to give my inaugural speech walking the stage instead of standing at a podium, I wore a fuchsia bright pink dress versus wearing a professional suit. I had a walk-up song. I don’t think that anyone has done that before.

It sort of speaks and matches my personality. I guess I wanted people to see that we’re evolving. You could do things a little bit different. Not everybody has to look the same. I think that’s important for our profession as a whole.

Amato: Let’s talk some about leadership journey. When you were last on the podcast, it was June 2023. You were at ENGAGE. We were again like this meeting remotely, but you said this about leaders: “I think every person in any leadership journey needs to have self-awareness, needs to be able to accept feedback. Needs to be able to make themselves a little bit vulnerable and be keenly aware of their blind spots.”

I’m sure that sentiment hasn’t changed for you, but now, 14 months later as AICPA chair, has your self-awareness changed?

McCall: Yes, it has. I think your blind spots change depending on what role you have. I took on this role as chair of the AICPA and co-chair of the Association. I am now in front of a lot more people throughout the profession, not just firm leaders, right? And around the globe, not just the United States space.

I have had a couple of people as I’m going around speaking, give me some feedback that I highly value. I do value feedback. I am good at acknowledging that it’s not going to feel great in the moment, but I do sit on it and reflect and try and then consider that on a go-forward basis.

People who’ve told me that in some of my thinking on two siloed because I’d sit as a major firm managing partner. I live and breathe public accounting. But when I’m out talking about the issues, I really need to be more cognizant about bringing in business and industry and government and academia – all of the stakeholders around the table.

I appreciate the feedback that I’ve gotten because it makes me a better connector with more people in our profession. If people didn’t say that to me, I might not have realized that. And I’ve become much more aware of, depending on where I sit in the country and where I sit in the world when I’m speaking, people are going to resonate with different issues like [diversity, equity, and inclusion] and ESG very differently. I’ve changed how I introduce those topics depending on where I am, because people are going to come from different places, and I think a healthy respect for differing views of opinion is really helpful. I think all of that feedback has made me better. I still value feedback, and I still think we need to be humble and make sure that we are checking our self-awareness on different issues.

Amato: Your self-awareness has grown as your awareness for other groups has grown. What were maybe some things that you didn’t realize you had that were already like amazing power skills, to use a phrase of yours?

McCall: That’s a good question. When you pause to self-reflect on your own journey, those things will come to light much easier. I’ve been thrown into periods of self-reflection at different points in my career. One of the things that I was always told was a weakness, which ended up being a power skill is my ability to have an opinion and speak up when the rest of the room is quiet, offer creative ideas or crazy ideas.

That really is the power skill, being able to be confident enough to speak up in a room when people maybe you feel have more experience or have been leading longer or whatever the case may be, if you do it in the right way is really a power skill. I’m a quick decision-maker. Sometimes if it’s not done in the right way, it could be viewed as pushing an agenda. I’ve experienced that as well and I’ve had to really pivot in decision-making.

In fact, I have a sticky on my computer wherever I go. It says “listen and ask more questions.” I constantly have to remind myself that it is valuable for me to listen to different points of view and make sure I have diversity around the table and ask more questions and be more thoughtful because when you’re making decisions, you really need to have all of the views around the table in order to do that. But that’s really a power skill as well.

Amato: It is, and I’m glad you brought up listening and that sticky note, because you’re right. It’s a good thing to be able to make decisions, to make them quickly. But you have to balance the, well, “let’s maybe step back; here are a few more things” before. I don’t know if that’s changed for you in this time.

McCall: It’s true. I think what I’ve learned is that there’s decisions that require command and control and there’s decisions that require consensus, and it’s a skill to know the difference between the two.

Amato: I see your posts on LinkedIn. I obviously see you quoted all over the place you’re taking time to join me here today. How do you have time to do all that you do?

McCall: I get that question all the time because I think people make assumptions, I think,  that I might not have a life or something. But you have to be good at setting priorities. Before I took on this role, I had a deep conversation with my husband, Chris, about it. He knows my passion for the profession, my passion for my firm and leading. He knows how super creative I am and I love to share.

So he was completely supportive of me stepping into this role first of all, and so were my partners. They saw the value in me being so deeply ingrained in the profession because quite frankly, having a front-row seat in the profession has really driven a lot of the positive growth within our own firm.

I think open communication, prioritizing and making sure you block out your calendar for all the things that’s important. I went out two years and I put in everything that was really important to my family and what was really important to my firm, and those are blockout dates.

Then you have to learn how to say no sometimes and not feel bad about it. I’m really good at compartmentalizing. I take my schedule one week at a time. If I were to look at everything I have to do over the course of my whole year, I could see myself maybe getting a little overwhelmed.

But I really look at, what am I doing two weeks from now and then another two weeks and my assistant has been an amazing support system for me in that and taking it in bits and pieces and just making sure that I am really picky about my time.

A lot of people reach out to you when you’re in a role like this. They want a meeting, they want a call, they want to sell you something, whatever it is. I am just really particular about which meetings I take now because time is just so valuable.

Amato: We’ve covered a lot, but what have we not covered that maybe you’d like to talk about as a closing thought?

McCall: Yeah, thank you for that question. We’re talking a lot about pipeline. There’s a lot going out right now as far as licensure and all of that. What I want to urge everyone listening is to ask themselves these questions. How am I evolving in this period of transformation? Am I doing my part to help the profession thrive? Both of those things. We have to evolve how we work, how we think about human capital, how we’re managing and developing people.

We have to create good workplace cultures, but then we also have to do our part, meaning am I getting into high schools to talk about our profession? Am I getting into the college classroom? Am I promoting the profession in a healthy way? Am I doing all this?

AICPA cannot solve this problem on their own. We in the profession all have to do our part, and if we’re not doing anything, we have no right to complain about anything.

Amato: Carla McCall, thank you very much for being on the podcast.

McCall: Thanks, Neil. Appreciate it.